|
Post by Syntax on Apr 17, 2014 9:41:56 GMT -5
Can't really put four because of the braces, two offset.
Everything gets outdated.. Researching lighting sucks. Not sure what to get.
|
|
|
Post by BriMc on Apr 17, 2014 9:59:47 GMT -5
Yeah, natural sunlight is not a good Idea and has been debated for many years. The Best results so far for the use of direct sunlight is a solar tube on top of the tank. Vho tried and proven but old technology and semi costly to run, MH tried and proven but costly to run, T-5 tried and proven and not too costly to run, these are basically you know what you are getting and no improvements are going to be made to them. LED lighting the technology is changing on a weekly basis so anything you buy now will be outdated in six months.
|
|
|
Post by jasonandsarah on Apr 17, 2014 10:12:38 GMT -5
How to: Selecting the Right LED Aquarium Light:
|
|
|
Post by jasonandsarah on Apr 17, 2014 10:34:01 GMT -5
Yeah, natural sunlight is not a good Idea and has been debated for many years. The Best results so far for the use of direct sunlight is a solar tube on top of the tank. Vho tried and proven but old technology and semi costly to run, MH tried and proven but costly to run, T-5 tried and proven and not too costly to run, these are basically you know what you are getting and no improvements are going to be made to them. LED lighting the technology is changing on a weekly basis so anything you buy now will be outdated in six months. By outdated does that mean they'll come out with better technology or that the lights aren't good to begin with? T5's evolved while they were in use they can't out with better bulbs all the time same with every other lighting. I think your basic led light is a better option then others listed above. There's proven evidence that leds produce great growth and coloration they also consume the least amount of power consumption for useable light output, Out of all of the other options, so what's the downside? www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1991180Maybe instead of everyone telling the best things about leds some people should list their downsides since starting to use leds. For me it's been overpower, at first because I didn't know any better. Disco ball effect, witch is not only unappealing but also means most of your light is being concentrated to one area, witch isn't what you want. You want a nice even spread of light with great reflection/shimmer. All other downsides I've experienced have been because of this particular fixture and not leds in general. Lastly just because leds continue to advance in technology doesn't mean that the technology currently in use isn't better then the old technology, mh, vho, or t5. Could a combination of two or more of these be the solution in the future? Who knows? Maybe it'll be a completely different kind of light?
|
|
|
Post by BriMc on Apr 17, 2014 12:12:55 GMT -5
Meaning the way they produce the light isn't that good, the way they reach their wavelength or color isn't that good. Unfortunately as I hate this statement but you get what you pay for. One huge problem with LED lighting is shadowing due to the light being directed at a max window of 120 degrees this is noticed very little in other lighting due to the light source flooding the tank with light. Another is not being able to spread a certain or multiple temperatures without using multiple LEDs creating the disco effect, Vho and T-5 you can do this, MH not so much as you are limited to a certain range of spectrum but no disco effect.
I do think that LED's are the Reef light of the future whether it be used as a hybrid mixed with T-5's or someone develops a different emitter to allow for a wider spread.
T-5's were developed in the early 1990's although the technology is based on the T-18 and T-12 lamps. Phosphors are tweaked to give the spectrum desired. Just like any other light source different spectrum lamp were developed for different markets. The German's were way ahead of their time with the development of Phosphors' and made a far superior lamp compared to anybody else.
Here are a few FYI's for you so you can understand why it is so hard for us hobbyist to find information on lighting for aquariums. With the big manufactures Osram, Phillips, GE, Bridgelux, cree and so on the pet industry accounts for 3% of all lighting products manufactured. Too small of a market segment to specialize in. Most aquarium lamps and LED's were made for other applications and the specs closely fit our needs and rebadged as aquarium lighting. Most come from the photography and display segments of their market. There are some small manufactures that custom blend phosphors and manufacture lamps in the spectrum specifically for reef aquariums such a UV lighting international and Interlectric . I have not learned of any small companied mass manufacturing specialty LEDs as of yet.
|
|
|
Post by Syntax on Apr 17, 2014 12:32:33 GMT -5
Maybe I'll go with three Kessil's with a row or two of t5's in a canopy.
|
|
|
Post by jasonandsarah on Apr 17, 2014 12:38:58 GMT -5
I don't have a par meter and am only speaking from my own personal experience. I had t5's before switching to leds and it was a 4 bulb fixture 48" so 4x54w I'd 216 watts I know have 2 cheap Chinese led fixtures at 120 watts each so 240 watts total... my t5's weren't even close to enough lighting for my tank even for some Lps and definitely not many sps (couple birds nest) at the center, top part of the tank. Since switching to led that I only run at 50% blues and 30% whites/multi colored so breakdown on that is I'm only using about 100 watts total both fixtures combined? That's half the power I was pushing using t5's at full power obviously and I'm now able to have any Lps or sps in my tank I want and growth rates are great and coloration of corals is ridiculous. So my conclusion on t5 vs led par is that leds push way more par. (especially useable light) As far as mh is concerned I can't comment on that because I have very little knowledge of mh lighting. I know it's tried and true lighting for a reef tank but it also produces a LOT of heat and consumes a TON of power? I have been told and read that leds push more par then mh per watt? But I don't know 100% so I'm not in a position to back that up. 4 bulb t5 48"fixture 216 watts 2 Chinese led fixtures 240 watts run at 50% blues & 30% white/multi 100 watts and the 100 watts is way more powerful then my t5's even in the shadows of my tank. I loved my t5's coloration w/ ati bulbs but they just weren't strong enough for my tank needs. Sorry for the terribly long answer.
|
|
|
Post by jasonandsarah on Apr 17, 2014 12:40:28 GMT -5
Maybe I'll go with three Kessil's with a row or two of t5's in a canopy. That's a great idea I love the look of kessil leds and you can't beat the coloration of some t5's out there (like ati purple plus) the combo of the 2 different lights will look amazing and grow corals like wild fire!
|
|
|
Post by Syntax on Apr 17, 2014 12:50:25 GMT -5
After a lot more research I'm finding a lot of people complaining of shadows. Some also say that the pinpoint light source will not allow for good sps colony growth due to shadows .
Can't decide. I love the shimmer from the Kesil. I guess every light source has its pros and cons.. I will not purchase another feature that has a disco ball or fake shimmer effect... My Acan cost $600.00 for my 29g and I don't like it for that reason
|
|
|
Post by jasonandsarah on Apr 17, 2014 12:58:53 GMT -5
Leds do make it seem like there's shadowing on the sides of a tank but believe me it's not as shadowed as most think. With my old lights my frog spawn used to be center tank about halfway up in depth(still not enough light) and now with leds I have to put this same coral(frog spawn) on the sides of my tank where it looks like it's shadowed, and it looks better grows better and has better coloration. Not all leds have the disco effect either. From what I've seen the kessil lights seem to be one of the best color blends out there with awesome shimmer. If I could afford kessil lights I'd have them.
|
|
|
Post by BriMc on Apr 17, 2014 14:24:49 GMT -5
You have been reading articles produced by people who know nothing about lighting. Look outside the tank and read up on PUR and ULE, not on an aquarium website. Another factor what were your old lights?
I think and my opinion is you are use to having T-5 lighting and use to having your whole tank lit up evenly which is LUX and or Lumens. Just because it's bright doesn't mean it's right. You can have a bright tank with a high PAR reading and still have no PUR or ULE. On the other hand you can have a dark tank with low PAR and have high PUR or ULE
Above you state "With my old lights my frog spawn used to be center tank about halfway up in depth(still not enough light) and now with leds I have to put this same coral(frog spawn) on the sides of my tank where it looks like it's shadowed, and it looks better grows better and has better coloration. How do you know it was not getting enough light and in fact may have been getting too much light? Now three things could be at factor here, either your old lights ( I am assuming t-5's ) were at the end of their life or the fixture sucked and the coral was unhappy. The coral was getting too much light in the middle where it was and was un happy ( I would bet one of the two above ) or lastly the LEDs are producing PUR and ULE in the areas which are dark which I doubt but it could be.
Now one comment I want to go back to you made about the dark edges of your tank. I have a Friend with two of the Chinese fixtures above his tank and his fixture sits about four inches from the water and has no issues with dark edges of his tank. I remember you commenting something about you could not lower the lights closer to your tank due to the way you hung them and that the fixture was 9 inches or so off the water. Now is this the fault of the fixture or a fault of how they are hung and the height that they are off the tank?
You are right about Kessil they use a completely different approach how they manufacture their light boards using many diodes, close together, under one lens pretty much eliminating the disco effect. Have you seen the Kessils in person or looking at the pictures on the net? The reason I ask this is I have three people I know who have the Kessils over their tanks. Two like you said look awesome with no dark edges but they still have the coral shading which I think is something that just needs some getting use to. The third tank has the Kessil hung high and the rock looks like the shrine of Israel but the edges of the tank from the botton of the rock work out is dark.
The shadowing people are talking about is under and around their corals not the edges of the tank. MH and T style lighting flood the tank with light, LEDs direct the light down creating more shadowing around the corals.
I really think you need to see many tanks and decide what looks the best for you. Jason I was not beating you up just asking questions and commenting about my experiences.
|
|
|
Post by Pokahpolice on Apr 17, 2014 14:41:47 GMT -5
I can tell you that I built an LED fixture and I'm not happy with it. It's hard for me to chime in and give a good opinion because it's a homemade fixture. It's bright enough and I can adjust each color separately to achieve any color I'd like but I've been playing with it for two weeks now and just don't like the way the LEDs light the tank. I even added two T5 bulbs and I'm not thrilled with the appearance. I honestly think just the 2 T5 bulbs looked better. I'm going to end up taking this apart and moving the diodes closer together. They are only an inch and a half apart now but I'm going to try an 'evil cluster' approach. It looks 'shadowed' and I'm getting a rainbow, not much but some.
|
|
|
Post by BriMc on Apr 17, 2014 14:51:42 GMT -5
Have you looked at the kessil site? It is a real neat idea what they did and I can see why they are expensive.
|
|
|
Post by gotareef on Apr 17, 2014 15:10:13 GMT -5
After a lot more research I'm finding a lot of people complaining of shadows. Some also say that the pinpoint light source will not allow for good sps colony growth due to shadows . Can't decide. I love the shimmer from the Kesil. I guess every light source has its pros and cons.. I will not purchase another feature that has a disco ball or fake shimmer effect... My Acan cost $600.00 for my 29g and I don't like it for that reason you can come check the led over my tank anytime you want... or neas in biddeford has a few over there coral tanks you talk with mike over there he is an expert on lighting
|
|
|
Post by BriMc on Apr 17, 2014 15:14:49 GMT -5
What makes Mike an expert on lighting?
|
|