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Post by gotareef on Nov 9, 2013 8:23:50 GMT -5
I feel like I need to make a comment here. People need to keep in mind that, while Greg is a hobbyist, he's also in business to make a living. As a business, his offer to host a frag swap - essentially letting competition into his house - has to be balanced with his need to stay in business. That means he can't sell coral at wholesale to us; he has to make some money to keep the lights on and to keep great new products coming into the area. I do think that Greg will provide great value if we do a draft. I've never seen him skimp on what he sells. Everyone knows that he has great quality and that he stands by his products. I'm saying all this as someone who has managed multipe retail pet stores and who has owned a marine fish and invertebrate import business. I know how hard this business is. It's a labor of love - no one gets rich off of selling marine livestock. You're lucky to stay in business. I think we should keep this in mind when dealing with any LFS (Cultivated Reef, Easy Aquariums, etc.) and appreciate that they are willing and able to support us hobbyists. We need to support the good ones in turn so that they stay in business. That is all. Carry on.  I guess I will be the stick in the mud the point of a frag draft is to get nice corals at wholesale prices for the "club members" not to make $$ of it. in the past lfs do the drafts to get ppl there once ppl are there the corals/fish in stock sell themselves.... if cultivatedreef cant do that because he is a business would it be a draft or a sale? us being competition dosnt make sense, lfs pay wholesale or cheaper then make there $$ when we buy a coral that has been marked up x3 or more if it is a frag they usually make 5x that..... again hobbyists as competition?  I dont want any hard feelings, I love the store and the quality is there but the price isnt always great  at the last swap I pd $35 for a coral that on his site he sells for $24 and it was said we would get 20% discount.... not complaining but thats how it worked. again no complaint from me I was fine paying the $35 for the frag from greg.... |
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Post by jess on Nov 9, 2013 8:43:25 GMT -5
I agree that maybe a draft at a business may not be the best idea. Tho I imagine something a little different could be arranged.
We used to do auctions and raffles to.
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Post by gotareef on Nov 9, 2013 8:54:20 GMT -5
right! lfs used to do all the drafts, they could get the best prices on the corals. then passed the savings off to us this gets ppl in the door to buy everything else they have
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Post by oceangirl2009 on Nov 9, 2013 10:08:03 GMT -5
I haven't been able to make the last couple but I would like to attend the next, but Bangor is a little far. My vote would be for someone more central so more people can attend. If Cultivated can't do wholesale, maybe Easy can, or we can look for another online vendor like last time.
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Post by gotareef on Nov 9, 2013 10:36:21 GMT -5
another thought is we could all bring our own frags for a draft?
have everyone that can, bring a frag. we can assign it a value of $10 or $20. tickets for $10 frags will be $5 and tickets for $20 frags will be $10
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Post by jess on Nov 9, 2013 10:37:21 GMT -5
I would like to see something down this way to, Bangor is just too far right now. At the same time id like to see ithosts somewhere different to. Has one been done at NEAS yet? Can't remember
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Post by gotareef on Nov 9, 2013 10:44:10 GMT -5
I was there a few weeks ago.... it was great I picked up a german blue digi that wasnt doing well and it has grown almost 1/4" on 5 tips its coming back strong in a few more weeks I will return it nice and healthy
he was talking about having a club with membership. members will get pricing of wholesale + 5-10% on anything he can get live or dry, plus use of his labs,tools, equipment........... I cant wait till it all gets going
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Post by scoobnoob on Nov 9, 2013 11:16:51 GMT -5
I think people are jumping the gun here. Greg did say he can't do wholesale he also said he could do a deal for a frag draft. I think its unfair to conclude avoiding him based on this especially without hearing what he could offer. I think if anything we could've started a swap thread with an expected budget to see what local fish stores could offer at that price point. I was pleased with the frag I got at the last swap and especially at the price of $10 however shipping took a toll on some of the frags offered going local would make this less of a concern. Also many bought tickets at $10 bought multiple tickets I'd rather dish out $20 for a higher quality frag and I'd rather support a local business whether its Easy, NEAS, or cultivated. I like this community and how easygoing its been. I think we should work together to secure frags for a swap without denouncing eachother and to me that means supporting our local businesses. Just my two cents.
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Post by jess on Nov 9, 2013 12:04:18 GMT -5
I was there a few weeks ago.... it was great I picked up a german blue digi that wasnt doing well and it has grown almost 1/4" on 5 tips its coming back strong in a few more weeks I will return it nice and healthy he was talking about having a club with membership. members will get pricing of wholesale + 5-10% on anything he can get live or dry, plus use of his labs,tools, equipment........... I cant wait till it all gets going Yea I'm part of the "club". I should go over today while I'm thinking about it. Maybe a plan for next sat if these couple frags I got don't get moved. Don't leave me any room for what I want right now. Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards |
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Post by Lance on Nov 9, 2013 12:15:10 GMT -5
I feel like I need to make a comment here. People need to keep in mind that, while Greg is a hobbyist, he's also in business to make a living. As a business, his offer to host a frag swap - essentially letting competition into his house - has to be balanced with his need to stay in business. That means he can't sell coral at wholesale to us; he has to make some money to keep the lights on and to keep great new products coming into the area. I do think that Greg will provide great value if we do a draft. I've never seen him skimp on what he sells. Everyone knows that he has great quality and that he stands by his products. I'm saying all this as someone who has managed multipe retail pet stores and who has owned a marine fish and invertebrate import business. I know how hard this business is. It's a labor of love - no one gets rich off of selling marine livestock. You're lucky to stay in business. I think we should keep this in mind when dealing with any LFS (Cultivated Reef, Easy Aquariums, etc.) and appreciate that they are willing and able to support us hobbyists. We need to support the good ones in turn so that they stay in business. That is all. Carry on. if cultivatedreef cant do that because he is a business would it be a draft or a sale? us being competition dosnt make sense, lfs pay wholesale or cheaper then make there $$ when we buy a coral that has been marked up x3 or more if it is a frag they usually make 5x that..... again hobbyists as competition? I dont want any hard feelings, I love the store and the quality is there but the price isnt always great at the last swap I pd $35 for a coral that on his site he sells for $24 and it was said we would get 20% discount.... not complaining but thats how it worked. again no complaint from me I was fine paying the $35 for the frag from greg.... I'm not trying to be contentious here... but I will be. Take the following for what it is worth. We may just have different ideas of how things should work. Re: Frag Draft - for me the point is to get good value for money not just get 'wholesale' price. And by 'wholesale price', what do you mean? Actual wholesale? Wholesale plus shipping? Transship pricing? If half the shipment comes in dead or bleached, who pays for it? What about the labor to order, acclimate, treat for parasites, and put away the shipment prior to the swap? I don't think this should be free. With Cultivated Reef, I'm guessing that frags will be selected from existing, stable, colored up stock. This is worth a lot to me. As an aside, I'm curious which LFS used to do this for you? Are they still in business? Since I got back into this hobby I have noticed that several LFS have gone out of business and most of the remaining stores are marginal at best for me as an advanced reef keeper. Re: Markups - When I was in the business, I always loved it when people would point out the 3, 4, or 5x markups on livestock. Those markups are not gouging; they are required to stay in business because maintaining livestock is expensive. And, as a business, net margins are all that matter. Those come after paying for your equipment (tanks, lights, heaters, etc.), electricity, water, consumables (salt, food, supplements, etc.), salaries, livestock, livestock maintenance, shipping fees, packing, equipment, taxes, rent, facility maintenance, insurance, etc. You also have to absorb livestock losses - surprisingly you can't sell dead coral/fish -and spend money/time caring for sick livestock- surprisingly you shouldn't sell sick/bleached coral/fish. I'll tell you this from experience - when you get in an order of livestock that got stuck in shipping in the middle of winter/summer and everything is frozen dead/burned up, those margins don't look so great anymore. At the end, you're lucky to break even and stay in business. To that point, look around Maine and tell me how many LFS stores there are. How many stay in business more than a couple of years? How many that you actually want to go to and spend your money at? Not many.Re: Competition - if I buy coral from you, I am not buying it from someone else. If I trade with you I don't have to buy it from someone else. This is the economic definition of competition. I'm not saying this is a zero-sum game. I think us hobbyist can benefit LFS but we can hurt them too. Re: Pricing - I was there at the swap. I remember Greg misquoting you a price and you looking it up on his website. I assume he honored his web price. If he didn't, I'm not sure why you didn't correct him or just not take the piece. And regarding the discount, I personally was quoted price and size for every piece before I bought it. I knew exactly what I was getting and, in nearly every case, I got frags that were 2x or better the size he normally sells at for his regular price. I'll take that over a 20% all day. I think other folks had this experience as well.
At the end of the day, the LFS have to decide if they want to support us or not. That decision will be based on whether they think us hobbyists are a net benefit or not. If we simply use them for their hard-earned resources they will not support us...and they shouldn't.
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Post by Fauther/Daughter on Nov 9, 2013 15:24:55 GMT -5
Would it be after the holidays? I like the idea of a frag draft because I'm new to the hobby and would not have a piece to swap, but I could participate if asked to contribute to the price of a "pack."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 16:53:18 GMT -5
swap would be best for me after xmas
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Post by CultivatedReef on Nov 9, 2013 18:51:47 GMT -5
[/quote] I guess I will be the stick in the mud the point of a frag draft is to get nice corals at wholesale prices for the "club members" not to make $$ of it. in the past lfs do the drafts to get ppl there once ppl are there the corals/fish in stock sell themselves.... if cultivatedreef cant do that because he is a business would it be a draft or a sale? us being competition dosnt make sense, lfs pay wholesale or cheaper then make there $$ when we buy a coral that has been marked up x3 or more if it is a frag they usually make 5x that..... again hobbyists as competition? I dont want any hard feelings, I love the store and the quality is there but the price isnt always great at the last swap I pd $35 for a coral that on his site he sells for $24 and it was said we would get 20% discount.... not complaining but thats how it worked. again no complaint from me I was fine paying the $35 for the frag from greg.... [/quote] Wow and sigh. I don't think I need to reply to first part of this since it has been addressed by various members but I do feel like I need to respond the second portion. If someone is going to buy something and they are not happy with the price the time to discuss it is at the time of purchase not months later on a open forum. I remember that frag and I remember it was bigger then the $24 version. We discussed the price and agreed on $35. Should I be apologizing for this? I think if you ask the members who went to the event you will find everyone was very happy with the prices. |
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Post by ryansweatt2004 on Nov 9, 2013 19:04:50 GMT -5
All opinions aside, I think it was the best frag swap to date that I've been to and I'll go out on a limb and assume that most everyone I met with during our get together seemed happy with the deals they were given, myself included, thanks again Greg! It's a great distance to drive but I'd certainly be willing to go backs and have another swap at cultivated reef or anywhere for that matter, coral draft or not. Maybe in an effort to not step on any toes, frag drafts should be ordered from an outside vendor so that if someone in a retail position holding a frag swap event should want to participate and have a chance to get something different, they can. Just an idea. The logistics of planning a large coral order around a flexible date set for a frag swap is the only problem.
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Post by jess on Nov 9, 2013 19:09:41 GMT -5
Swam a couple times got stuff straight from the ocean. It had its pros and cons, we got colonies at frag prices, but it came with the risk of nasty hitchhikers.
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